David Jay Jordan's

                
                      
  Man's Wrath versus God's Wrath

 To put it simply man's wrath is wrong and  God's wrath is right. God's righteous indignation is justified and right, as
well as ours if we trust the Lord to be the avenger and protector of the poor. We are not to take God's judgment into
our own hands, and wreck havoc on our enemies. That's the Lord's discernment and his job, as mentioned before. So
allow me to parenthesis the comments of a poster with my responses in  . . . . (   )

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 "The wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God" James 1:20. (EXACTLY DON'T GO TO THE
SYSTEM, TRUST THE LORD AND HIS JUDGMENTS , FOR THEY ARE RIGHTEOUS AND TRUE)  My own
paraphrase would be "The unforgiveness of man worketh not the purposes of God".(Yes just give your past problems
with evildoers to the Lord when the hardhearted won't apoligise or repent...don't let their heart hearts get you down
and discourage you from reaching the good hearts.) It's not our job to change people so God can love them;(YES don't
try and change people, you can't, it's their choice...you can't force a confession otherwise its a forced confession and
just pretense) It's our job to love people so God can change them. (True, only God can change people that want to be
changed...get healed by giving your complaints and abuses to the Lord by knowing what the Lord thinks about them
and get on with healing others and serving the Lord and having a good time for Him and others)

  When I say "love", I don't mean a sweety-sweet kind of love, but the kind of love that Jesus had -"He knew what
was in man", yet He still loved us enough to go ahead and sacrifice Himself for us. (Yes)

 I believe that when Jesus went to the cross, He extended total forgiveness to the WHOLE world  â€¦.God was in
Christ, reconciling the world to Himself, NOT IMPUTING THEIR TRESPASSES AGAINST THEM..."2 Co. 5:19
(No not to all, only to those that receive Him as many, many hate Him and even showed it by crucifying Him, they
are not forgiven then, now and maybe never. The Lord's blood is available for all to drink but not all will drink and
some prefer their own holiness over the true holiness of the Lord)

It's a question of our presenting to them in a way that they would want to receive it the word of reconciliation,
mentioned in that same verse (Disagree some will not receive and all will not be saved. This is said over and over in the
Bible as no where have I seen a doctrine that says all will be saved and that there are no evil people in the world. Yes
we have to realize any could get saved so we have to be faithful to talk and witness to all, like the prostitutes and drug
addicts and the so-called banana pickers because they can easily be much more righteous in heart than us) Sure, we
have a technical right to hold people's sins against them (John 20:23), but why would we want to do that, in light of
the many sins we've had to be forgiven of? (Because whosoever sins we remit, the heavy evil ones, the murderous
ones the serious ones, they are remitted...all must face their accusers in person so we all must try to get our hearts
clean before others and then we will be able to face the Lord) It's not consistent with the life example of Jesus.

 (Again Jesus never forgave everyone everything, I disagree totally, if he did he would never come back and destroy
them and their system at the Battle of Armagedon and Battle of Gog and Magog a thousand years later. This is an
errant falacy in my opinion that goes against all prophecy which is the testimony of Jesus. Jesus never forgave
everyone everything otherwise there would be no GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT. No one can negate this
judgment and the judgments of the Lord and the future horrific acts that will be perpetrated against us. In this present
time, people can believe all is well and nice and we all can forgive little minor insensitivity’s but in the real world
and in the real world ahead, atrocities will increase and we better understand the Lord's judgments to keep our hearts
and minds focused on Him)

 Forgiveness deals with things that can't be dealt with any other way. Misunderstandings can be fixed by
understanding. If the offender can offer a good excuse for his behavior, we can excuse him. It's when there is NO
excuse, that only God's forgiveness will do.(No give the problem to the Lord, but that doesn't mean the Lord forgives
them automatically either. The Lord knows their hearts and the exact circumstances in what happened, if it is super
serious then the Lord will judge accordingly) "Though our sins be as SCARLET" -- not just pale pink -- God says He
will make them white like wool. (if we repent, if we reason together and commune together as the verse in Isaiah 1:18
says, but the Lord doesn't automatically wipe away all our sins forever and ever, we have to admit them and confess
them to Him and others in some serious cases. We have to be right with our brethen and even others so we can
continue to pray in the Spirit as scriptures state.)

 Love in Jesus

 Jay

February 10, 2001
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