David Jay Jordan

                            All Martyrs Didn’t Die Smiling

A brother on-line wrote..... Those Christian martyrs who smiled and sang as they were burning at the stake
couldn't have done that if they were in agony! It's just not physically possible! So our death is not going to be some
horrible experience, it's going to be…. Wonderful !


To me, this is an extreme half truth, that is hardly the whole truth, for although some martyrs like Stephen died with a
smile on their face, no where does it say all martyr’s have to go down smiling.

The seven brothers in 2nd Maccabbes didn't. They cursed the anti-christ devil that
persecuted and tortured them by slowly carving them up. And then their mother started doing the same to the anti-christ
King that defamed the Temple and the Lord. They let it be known where their allegiance lie and didn't lie. I mean the souls
of them that were beheaded under the altar definitely don't seem to have died  wonderful deaths, they were headed to a
WONDERFUL place, but they surely didn't appreciate the torture and beheading that fell upon them. Why…. because
they are still asking  the Lord's vengeance on the perpetrators of such crimes against the Lord and their fellow brethren.
They had righteous indignation because they suffered real pain and real suffering at the hands of their real enemies.

It wasn't a super-spiritualized death at all, most of the martyrs died in pain but were released from pain because of the
Lord's deliverance. And I don't think it is right to minimize their Christian deaths to fantasize that they died without pain.
Some yes, but not All.

For up until their final release from this earthly body, I think many, many of them really suffered. It tested their faith, and
their tormentors literally tried to test their faith and see if it was real. Would they hold out til the end on the iceberg,
knowing they were going to die as the true story goes. Or would they throw away their crown to their Russian
persecutors. Would they still keep the faith after those around them started to die of exposure. Yes, and those that had real
faith, felt the pain right up until the end in my opinion.

All didn't go down smiling and if we pretend that all will have a smile on their face in the midst of the hell in the future. I
think we are doing a dis-service to our fellow Christians who went before us, and the prophets in the past were died before
us. Sure we may be in dream land now and we can dream about instant death and instant glory like the churches, but we are
suppose to be in the real world and know better.

We are suppose to realize that it isn’t  going to get any easier but harder all the time and we are going to have to make
literal sacrifices and endure literal pain. I hate the thought, I pray I have the grace for the day, but I am under no illusion
that the day and days will come.

We can't minimize even emotional pain and sufferings, or the pain and mental suffering that a rape can cause on a victim. It
is a real pain, we can't minimize it by saying it didn't hurt them. We have to heal the pain, not by fantasizing it away but
by having true empathy and compassion and truly understanding what people have gone through. Why …because there is
real pain and suffering in this world whether physical or spiritual. For its only then, we’ll look for the real balm from
the Lord, not from some fantasy that we or others can smile away.

We have to get real. Sorry brother. I have to disagree with you on your wording and other wording in this case. For the
whole point of fellowshipping together and being One together is for us not to pretend there was never any pain and
suffering in our past lives or that there will be any pain and suffering in our future lives for the Lord.

A fellowship might not be the place to discuss the pains and sorrows of the past but at least we should know there is pain
and suffering on both sides and be encouraging one another to look to Jesus ……for relief from the past and future real
pains and real persecutions.

Love in Jesus


Hebrews 11:25 -43

Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of
David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained
promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness
were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.Women received their dead raised to life
again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: And others had trial
of CRUEL mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn
asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute,
afflicted, tormented; (in pain) Of whom the world was not worthy: they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in
dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through Faith, (even though in pain and suffering
until the End. Yet God bless them for finishing their course and keeping the Faith even if they didn’t die with a smile
on their faces)